Fred's, (Used to be Barb's), Board

We will find out in the first week of December, when the IOC will meet and decide.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/ ... e36999196/

This could really change things!

Wow - this really *is* news!!

It's a very tricky issue for sure, because I would hate to see innocent athletes be punished for the wrongs of others, but in a mess like this, it's really difficult to know who is clean and who isn't. If it really is state sponsored, then it's likely that it's simply a part of all Russian sport culture and everyone is guilty. It will be interesting to see this all play out.....

More details on this story with mention of a possible Russian boycott: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... are_btn_tw

A silly question, but how can you boycott when you're banned?

This seems quite serious, and also like it could easily have been rectified. Not completing those two fundamental requirements surely indicates the need to hide something. Again, I feel for the athletes who are going to be caught in the middle of this

Kevin wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:19 pm A silly question, but how can you boycott when you're banned?

It sounds like the old story of "you can't fire me, I quit!"

Very sad for all the athletes, that's for sure.

Elizabeth wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:11 am It sounds like the old story of "you can't fire me, I quit!"

Exactly!!!

The IOC Executive Board ruled on this situation today. https://www.olympic.org/news/ioc-suspen ... ympic-flag

IOC suspends Russian NOC and creates a path for clean individual athletes to compete in PyeongChang 2018 under the Olympic Flag

This clears a possible way for Russian skaters to participate under the Olympic flag.

IOC President Thomas Bach: "This was an unprecedented attack on the integrity of the Olympic Games and sport. The IOC Executive Board, after following due process, has issued proportional sanctions for this systemic manipulation while protecting the clean athletes."

There are many guidelines Russian athletes must meet to be eligible to compete in PyeongChang. In the end, "The IOC, at its absolute discretion, will ultimately determine the athletes to be invited from the (invitation) list."

Other decisions include:

• Not to accredit any official from the Russian Ministry of Sport for the Olympic Winter Games PyeongChang 2018.
  
  • To exclude the then Minister of Sport, Mr Vitaly Mutko, and his then Deputy Minister, Mr. Yuri Nagornykh, from any participation in all future Olympic Games.
  
  • To withdraw Mr Dmitry Chernyshenko, the former CEO of the Organising Committee Sochi 2014, from the Coordination Commission Beijing 2022.
  
  • To suspend ROC President Alexander Zhukov as an IOC Member, given that his membership is linked to his position as ROC President.
  
  • The IOC reserves the right to take measures against and sanction other individuals implicated in the system.
  
  And IOC to award Russia a $15 million fine
  
  The Russian Olympic Committee must reimburse the costs incurred by the IOC on the investigations and "contribute to the establishment of the Independent Testing Authority for the total sum of USD 15 million, to build the capacity and integrity of the global anti-doping system.

From a translation of a Russian article via Twitter:

Russian Federation will decide about the participation of Russian skaters at the Olympic Games under a neutral flag when the officials get back from GPF, after December 10, says Alexander Gorshkov

These are far reaching decisions other than excluding Russian athletes from the games. It will be interesting to see who will participate and who will not.

happyheini wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:11 pm These are far reaching decisions other than excluding Russian athletes from the games. It will be interesting to see who will participate and who will not.

I fear that anyone who does not compete will forever have the label of "guilty" associated with their names, but sadly I don't think the athletes will have a choice in whether the compete or not.....in the same way they likely would not have had any say in whether they wanted to take performance enhancing drugs. It's a sad day for the athletes, but 100% the right decision.

I agree, Kevin and I don't believe the Russian system will ever change. The athletes will be able to compete at other Winter competitions including Worlds Championships, but under a cloud of suspicion.

Oh my...what a disgrace for their country and a shocking development. It seems strange that they can compete, but not under their flag. However, it is warranted.

Most of what is claimed is not true at all. There is a political force in the West that is trying to accuse Russia of everything they can think of. Someone wants to start a war and it's not Russia. I'm sure that Russia is no more guilty than any other nation. It connects with "Russia trying to interfere with the U.S. election, which is also a load of hooey.
We are all impoverished by the absence of Russia, especially in our sport where they are so influential in building the sport. Any medals won will carry the doubt as to whether there was a Russian who would have won it if they'd been allowed to compete. Is it really being awarded to the "Best in the world?"

fred wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:53 am Most of what is claimed is not true at all. There is a political force in the West that is trying to accuse Russia of everything they can think of. Someone wants to start a war and it's not Russia. I'm sure that Russia is no more guilty than any other nation. It connects with "Russia trying to interfere with the U.S. election, which is also a load of hooey.
We are all impoverished by the absence of Russia, especially in our sport where they are so influential in building the sport. Any medals won will carry the doubt as to whether there was a Russian who would have won it if they'd been allowed to compete. Is it really being awarded to the "Best in the world?"

Respectfully Fred, it's not the "Best in the world" if some are using an unfair advantage to win (cheating). A very well-documented government run doping scheme was uncovered during the Sochi Games, and Russia has had every opportunity to comply with the process set before them to prove that they were not guilty of the charges. They failed (refused) to meet the deadlines for those requirements, and are therefore banned. This is not a political agenda, it's about doping in sport, and Russia could have cleared themselves but they did not. They knew the rules by which they could continue to compete at the Olympics, and they refused to comply. That comes with consequence.

I am confident that other countries will be looked at as well, if there is any doubt or suspicion about how a country (not individual athletes) are handling doping results from their athletes. It's a strong message to Russia for sure, but also for athletes and countries around the world.

Respectfully Fred, it's not the "Best in the world" if some are using an unfair advantage to win (cheating).

But they're not. The accusations are without sufficient evidence, and look at the pattern of accusations against Russia recently. Interference in U.S. Elections, (also without a shred of evidence), and somehow arranging Brexit in Britain. It's all preposterous.
There was a captioned photo a few months back. I don't have a copy of it now but it showed 2 dogs with nervous expressions on their faces, (might have been photoshopped ), and the caption read, "Welcome home,... Putin peed in the hallway." It underlines the fact that Russia is being blamed for everything these days and it's all suspicious at best. This is the sort of massive smearing that we've seen against many nations & leaders when the U.S. wants to start a war against them. When they wanted to invade the Middle East they smeared many leaders, "truth" was not a criteria.
You know how evil Gaddafi was in Lybia, & he had to be stopped? This is what Momar Gaddafi was about.
1.) Free Health Care
2.) Free Electricity.
3.) Interest free loans.
4.) Newly wed received $50,000 towards starting a home.
5.) Mothers received $5,000 on the birth of a child.
6.) Citizens received a percentage of all oil sales.
7.) The government paid 50% of the price of your new car.
8.) Unemployed Lybians received the average salary for their profession as a sort of EI.
It sounds like he was pretty diabolical, doesn't it. I suspect the reason he was removed from power & assassinated was exactly because he was too good an example of what governments can be like when they are on the side of the people Libya had the highest standard of living in Africa.
Right now the U.S. economy is failing. They try to prop it up by starting wars which are profitable for the people who do the deciding, and on the backs of their friendly nations, like Canada. (See the NAFTA debacle).
It was a tradition until recently that the U.S. marines guarded the samples given by the athletes at all Olympic Games. When an Eastern country, I forget which, chose to handle that themselves, U.S. diplomats went ballistic. It was like trying to tell the fox that he's no longer in charge of the hen house.
So it's obvious that this is also a smear campaign of, perhaps, an even greater magnitude, but they grow bolder with time as they get more powerful. This'll be George Soros behind the latest lies and there is a huge fued between the Soros faction and the T-Rump faction. I am no fan of wither one ofthem, but I've grown to be a moderate fan of President Putin. He may tell a lie once in a while, but U.S. presidents *never* seem to tell the truth.

I am sure we all have political and philosophical opinion but perhaps we should go back to the "skating part" and its consequences. The "politics" could be discussed in the "off topic" section. IMHO

Let's agree to disagree on this one!

I agree with agreeing to disagree and moving back to skating!

Political discussions can take place elsewhere

On the good news front, I understand that Mr. Putin has said that he will not prevent athletes from competing if they choose to do so.

Elizabeth wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:16 pm On the good news front, I understand that Mr. Putin has said that he will not prevent athletes from competing if they choose to do so.

I think that is great, and what I had hoped would happen. I'm curious to see what the process will be for the athletes who petition (or whatever they are calling it) to compete under the Olympic flag. I'm also curious to know how this will impact the Team event. Will they be the "Olympic Team"? Or will there be no Russian participation in the Team Event? If there is a team event for them, it may change the dynamics depending on which athletes choose to participate or not. Certainly something to watch!

Isn't there also still an effort to weed out "cheaters" from the Sochi Olympics, so there could be "stripped" medals awarded to Silver-, Bronze- and other non-medallists. Perhaps even in the team event. Interesting thoughts, I am very curious who will attend under the Olympic flag. Of course there are many other events involved not only "our" figure skating.

I'm sure there is. They are likely lies also.

Kevin wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:35 am
Respectfully Fred, it's not the "Best in the world" if some are using an unfair advantage to win (cheating). A very well-documented government run doping scheme was uncovered during the Sochi Games, and Russia has had every opportunity to comply with the process set before them to prove that they were not guilty of the charges. They failed (refused) to meet the deadlines for those requirements, and are therefore banned. This is not a political agenda, it's about doping in sport, and Russia could have cleared themselves but they did not. They knew the rules by which they could continue to compete at the Olympics, and they refused to comply. That comes with consequence.

I am confident that other countries will be looked at as well, if there is any doubt or suspicion about how a country (not individual athletes) are handling doping results from their athletes. It's a strong message to Russia for sure, but also for athletes and countries around the world.

Thank you Kevin for your words on this. I agree with you. As an avid sports watcher from everything from hockey to golf, I'd have to say that Russia has played a lot of political games over the years in the sports arena. We have certainly seen this in our beloved sport of skating as well as hockey particularly. Even the fact that North Americans were sending amateurs to the Olympics for many years, but Russian teams were professional. I saw this in the last several years with my former student who played for team Canada at the Deaflympics and won player of the Gold Medal game. The Canadians were a bunch of kids and they got together for the yearly tournament. They almost beat a much older Russian team. As they (the Russians) removed their helmets you see a bunch of bald heads and then realize that these guys play hockey together all year and are essentially professionals as they are paid to be part of it. They don't have other jobs because they are playing hockey all year together. It was reminiscent for me of some of the antics in the 70's. HOWEVER, it's not the individual players' fault but the system. Anyway, this is the type of subtle games we've seen in the past. Don't even get me started on the judging controversies involving the soviet nations and the block judging.

About skaters, I feel sorry for the individual athletes who are caught in this system. Whether we agree that Russia is at fault, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The whole thing with Trump is a completely separate issue and I think we have to keep that in perspective. I feel this was very much presented with evidence of cheating. That's why testing of athletes go through testing in the first place to prevent this kind of thing. I don't necessarily feel that Russia is the only country cheating, but they were the one to get caught. I think it's really sad as it puts a blemish on the whole event.

Ok, here's a question. If the skaters can't compete under the flag, can judges from Russia officiate?

If the skaters can't compete under the flag, can judges from Russia officiate?

It appears that officials who are representing the ISU, ie. the Referee, the Technical Controller and Technical Specialists will be able to participate. With respect to the judges, that is still being sorted out, as I understand it.

As they say "stay tuned"....

The whole thing with Trump is a completely separate issue and I think we have to keep that in perspective. I feel this was very much presented with evidence of cheating.

Are you really trying to start an argument?

I think we should stick to skating and skaters and leave the politicians out of this skating forum - there's enough of that "other" news all around us